Rejected Spirited

Onett

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2020
Messages
160
Spirited
By: Onett_
Map Description: A battle of the bathhouses...


Based on Spirited Away by Hayao Miyazaki


I'd highly recommend that you guys download the map and look through it in-game, as the design probably seems more perplexing than it really is when you can only look through a select album of pictures.

Download Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/65ts4xqk6csslfm/Spirited%201.1.zip?dl=0

(Note: The red and blue wool pillars represent spawn points for both teams)
(Another Note: The water below the bathhouse and cliff will be out of the border, so you will die if you fall in)

Map Design explained:

Bomb-to-bomb time: ~33 seconds

At first glance, I understand that the balancing of this map may seem very strange. Why does red team get a giant fortress and blue team only gets a small town with seemingly no defenses? Also, how is the bomb time so short when the bathhouse is so huge?

I'll explain the design behind the map by going through some foreseeable concerns I see people having with the map on first glance.

(but TL;DR, the red bathhouse is actually limited to just the first floor and a small part of the second floor, so the map isn't as big as it seems. The first floor of the bathhouse is actually the middle of the map, and both team's bases have similar layouts. Red base is on the 2nd floor of the big red bathhouse, the blue base is the village.)

warning: a lot of words

As previously stated, I believe the best way to get a feel for the map is to download it, especially since this map's design is very different from the usual, but I'll be providing some extra thoughts in this section below to help explain how and why this map design works.

I'll be doing that by addressing some foreseeable concerns I see people having with it at first glance.

"It's not balanced"

Just from a glance, it can easily be assumed that map balance is completely nonexistent. Why does blue team get a tiny village while red team gets a huge fortress? While the exterior of red's "base" makes it seem ridiculously large, the map is actually restricted to only the first floor, and a portion of the second floor. But even still, it may seem that red team has a huge advantage, since their base seems much larger. However, when looking at the map, the area on the first floor is actually the center, where both teams will clash.

The bridge between the village and the bathhouse seems like the more obvious candidate for mid, however I've actually intended for the "mid" of the map to be the first floor of the bathhouse. This area has been designed to be a suitable mid as well, with no distinct vantage points for either side to hold and relatively open fighting areas.

As for the bases, I have designed both blue and red base to be very similar in layout.

Both teams have two small but significant chokepoints leading into their base, located at opposite sides of the "base".
For blue team, this is the walkway between the buildings, on both sides of the stalls in the center.
For red team, this is the stairs that lead up to the second floor.

Both teams then have a rather open area where attackers can shift from one side of the base to the other.

And finally, the layout of the bomb room itself for both teams is very similar, with 4 entrances leading into a somewhat small base.

"But red and blue base aren't exactly the same..."

While it is an asymmetrical map and equality of bases is a large concern, I've tried to make both teams equally as strong while also leaving some distinct strengths and weaknesses for each.

While red's base has more areas for people to hide and coordinate traps with kits like trigger and warper, it is also the only base with special marine paths for attackers to use, accessible through the hot tubs in the center. It's large size may also work against it, as it makes their territory harder to control.

And while blue's base has a smaller, more easily controllable area, this can also work to their disadvantage, as if they fail to control it properly, they can easily be overrun by attackers.

Hopefully with these design elements, there are incentives to pick certain kits and strategies for each team, but not to the extent where a single strat becomes too oppressive.


"It's way too confusing"

I've included banners around the map in order to direct players towards both team's bases, and also designate the rooms in which each team's bomb is located. As well as this, the pathing of the map is fairly straightforward.

The first floor of red's base is split into 3 lanes, left, middle and right, which are all completely straight. Those taking the center route reach a dead end and must choose a side to go towards, and those taking the left and right routes can easily tell where they must go to progress.

Other than this, I don't see any potential confusion in terms of pathing.

"If you had to go through and explain the map's design this thoroughly doesn't that mean its too confusing?"

What I'm explaining here are details which should come naturally to any players who are new to the map, and I'm simply bringing these details to light so that I can clear up any misconceptions that may come from initial impressions. Since I feel that this map is probably confusing upon first glance, I felt that I should provide some guidance on how to interpret it.

If you guys would be willing to provide feedback, I'd appreciate it a lot. I feel like I was very experimental with the design of this map, and while I'm fairly confident that it will play well, I'm still eager to hear what you guys think of it.
 
Last edited:

Espios

Active member
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
69
Spirited
By: Onett_
Map Description: A battle of the bathhouses...


Based on Spirited Away by Hayao Miyazaki


I'd highly recommend that you guys download the map and look through it in-game, as the design probably seems more perplexing than it really is when you can only look through a select album of pictures.

Download Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wxz75o0jr42ul78/Spirited.zip?dl=0

(Note: The red and blue wool pillars represent spawn points for both teams, and the bomb in front of the red bathhouse is the nuke)
(Another Note: The water below the bathhouse and cliff will be out of the border, so you will die if you fall in)

Map Design explained:

Bomb-to-bomb time: ~33 seconds

At first glance, I understand that the balancing of this map may seem very strange. Why does red team get a giant fortress and blue team only gets a small town with seemingly no defenses? Also, how is the bomb time so short when the bathhouse is so huge?

I'll explain the design behind the map by going through some foreseeable concerns I see people having with the map on first glance.

(but TL;DR, the red bathhouse is actually limited to just the first floor and a small part of the second floor, so the map isn't as big as it seems. The first floor of the bathhouse is actually the middle of the map, and both team's bases have similar layouts. Red base is on the 2nd floor of the big red bathhouse, the blue base is the village.)

warning: a lot of words

As previously stated, I believe the best way to get a feel for the map is to download it, especially since this map's design is very different from the usual, but I'll be providing some extra thoughts in this section below to help explain how and why this map design works.

I'll be doing that by addressing some foreseeable concerns I see people having with it at first glance.

"It's not balanced"

Just from a glance, it can easily be assumed that map balance is completely nonexistent. Why does blue team get a tiny village while red team gets a huge fortress? While the exterior of red's "base" makes it seem ridiculously large, the map is actually restricted to only the first floor, and a portion of the second floor. But even still, it may seem that red team has a huge advantage, since their base seems much larger. However, when looking at the map, the area on the first floor is actually the center, where both teams will clash.

The bridge between the village and the bathhouse seems like the more obvious candidate for mid, however I've actually intended for the "mid" of the map to be the first floor of the bathhouse. This area has been designed to be a suitable mid as well, with no distinct vantage points for either side to hold and relatively open fighting areas.

As for the bases, I have designed both blue and red base to be very similar in layout.

Both teams have two small but significant chokepoints leading into their base, located at opposite sides of the "base".
For blue team, this is the walkway between the buildings, on both sides of the stalls in the center.
For red team, this is the stairs that lead up to the second floor.

Both teams then have a rather open area where attackers can shift from one side of the base to the other.

And finally, the layout of the bomb room itself for both teams is very similar, with 4 entrances leading into a somewhat small base.

"But red and blue base aren't exactly the same..."

While it is an asymmetrical map and equality of bases is a large concern, I've tried to make both teams equally as strong while also leaving some distinct strengths and weaknesses for each.

While red's base has more areas for people to hide and coordinate traps with kits like trigger and warper, it is also the only base with special marine paths for attackers to use, accessible through the hot tubs in the center. It's large size may also work against it, as it makes their territory harder to control.

And while blue's base has a smaller, more easily controllable area, this can also work to their disadvantage, as if they fail to control it properly, they can easily be overrun by attackers.

Hopefully with these design elements, there are incentives to pick certain kits and strategies for each team, but not to the extent where a single strat becomes too oppressive.


"It's way too confusing"

I've included banners around the map in order to direct players towards both team's bases, and also designate the rooms in which each team's bomb is located. As well as this, the pathing of the map is fairly straightforward.

The first floor of red's base is split into 3 lanes, left, middle and right, which are all completely straight. Those taking the center route reach a dead end and must choose a side to go towards, and those taking the left and right routes can easily tell where they must go to progress.

Other than this, I don't see any potential confusion in terms of pathing.

"If you had to go through and explain the map's design this thoroughly doesn't that mean its too confusing?"

What I'm explaining here are details which should come naturally to any players who are new to the map, and I'm simply bringing these details to light so that I can clear up any misconceptions that may come from initial impressions. Since I feel that this map is probably confusing upon first glance, I felt that I should provide some guidance on how to interpret it.

If you guys would be willing to provide feedback, I'd appreciate it a lot. I feel like I was very experimental with the design of this map, and while I'm fairly confident that it will play well, I'm still eager to hear what you guys think of it.
I gave you a little bit of feedback on the server but with your explanations I think I understand the map a lot better now! Like Mythless said awhile back, SND mapmaking has entered a kind of renaissance thats steering away from the cookie-cutter shape that gets repetitive (two bases with a field in between them redecorated 50 times). Careful consideration has got to go into making these unorthodox maps though because, well... they're unorthodox; they have "balanced" yet entirely different bases, new and interesting routing designs... I'm not sure how to feel about the gameplay of this map, though aesthetically it looks pretty nice(:

I still have a few concerns though. I don't see why a 2 team map would need a nuke if there's poison. Are we allowed to choose if our map gets a nuke or poison? idk. Regardless, you said mid was inside the bathhouse on the first floor. This seems like it gives blue a huge advantage, seeing as its right outside their base. A more fitting spot for it would be in the courtyard of the bathhouse imo

I also dont think the flags you have to point people in the right direction work very well. The paths are pretty straightforward once you figure out what they are, but there are so many flags, and they're often paired with the opposing team's in a way that just feels confusing and out of place. I might consider rearranging them, or using another way to signify the routes (carpet, colored blocks, etc)

I'm excited to see where this map goes! I think it'll be a really interesting concept!
 

Onett

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2020
Messages
160
I gave you a little bit of feedback on the server but with your explanations I think I understand the map a lot better now! Like Mythless said awhile back, SND mapmaking has entered a kind of renaissance thats steering away from the cookie-cutter shape that gets repetitive (two bases with a field in between them redecorated 50 times). Careful consideration has got to go into making these unorthodox maps though because, well... they're unorthodox; they have "balanced" yet entirely different bases, new and interesting routing designs... I'm not sure how to feel about the gameplay of this map, though aesthetically it looks pretty nice(:

I still have a few concerns though. I don't see why a 2 team map would need a nuke if there's poison. Are we allowed to choose if our map gets a nuke or poison? idk. Regardless, you said mid was inside the bathhouse on the first floor. This seems like it gives blue a huge advantage, seeing as its right outside their base. A more fitting spot for it would be in the courtyard of the bathhouse imo

I also dont think the flags you have to point people in the right direction work very well. The paths are pretty straightforward once you figure out what they are, but there are so many flags, and they're often paired with the opposing team's in a way that just feels confusing and out of place. I might consider rearranging them, or using another way to signify the routes (carpet, colored blocks, etc)

I'm excited to see where this map goes! I think it'll be a really interesting concept!
thank you :)

Yea... I might've overdone it with the flags. Also for some reason I thought 2 team maps had nukes lmao, I'll just take it out.

As for gameplay, I'll probably revise some of the design once I finish exams. I wanted to stay as faithful to the movie as much as possible but I think doing that has led parts of the map to be poorly designed. Right now I'm mostly just thinking of reworking the 1st floor of the bathhouse, the three lanes might lead to the attacking team just running past the other team most of the time, especially since the lanes are pretty wide, which isn't fun for either team. I might just restrict gameplay to just the center lane and expand it so its a more suitable mid
 

Espios

Active member
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
69
thank you :)

Yea... I might've overdone it with the flags. Also for some reason I thought 2 team maps had nukes lmao, I'll just take it out.

As for gameplay, I'll probably revise some of the design once I finish exams. I wanted to stay as faithful to the movie as much as possible but I think doing that has led parts of the map to be poorly designed. Right now I'm mostly just thinking of reworking the 1st floor of the bathhouse, the three lanes might lead to the attacking team just running past the other team most of the time, especially since the lanes are pretty wide, which isn't fun for either team. I might just restrict gameplay to just the center lane and expand it so its a more suitable mid
understandable, still an awesome map. it'll be interesting for sure. good luck!
 

Cobra_Command

Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
37
Hi Onett,

We’re down to try asymmetrical bases like in the olden days, and we have the ability for random team spawns.

For your map, the aesthetics are nice but as Espios also said, it's the gameplay that's the worry, especially in the bathhouse with all the doors and trap doors. The hot tubs for marines are a nice idea, can’t forget about the sharks!

Generally there’s quite a lot of open convoluted paths that could leave many players confused on where to go, compared to the blue side where it’s basically just a straight shot to the base with no distractions.

The water pipe system is an interesting secret route with just enough air to escape unharmed, however it doesn’t really add any gameplay advantage for the time it takes you to swim through; the reds will most likely still be at the stairs or pushed back.

Another concern is the 3 paths due to the spawn locations of the teams, a blue could take a left or right path at the start and run past all the enemies without a chance for them to defend that position.

Due to this we’ll reject this map for now.

PS: “I love the Bonsai tree wall art” - Dave
 

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