Some SnD ideas

Onett

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May 25, 2020
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162
I figured I'd put all of these down here so it's easier for everyone to see

General Suggestions:

Replacing 2 team map poison with nuke:


imo, every game that goes to poison feels like it has at least like 1 or 2 minutes of time near the end where absolutely nothing is happening, which isn't fun for anyone. In addition to this, poison itself is pretty RNG based and doesn't lead to fun gameplay scenarios most of the time.

In comparison, I feel like nukes on 4 team maps are a much more fun endgame objective, and I'd like to see it on 2 team maps as well. It essentially forces another mid fight, which usually happens at the start of the game on 2 team maps anyways, but imo, being forced to adapt to the new landscape of the center of the map for defense is much more fun than trying to hide in a corner and praying you get good RNG in poison.

In addition to this, the nuke spawn time could be dependent on how long it has been since a player died.

To keep things simple, I think the time needed for nuke to appear should be around 5 minutes (poison appears at 7 minutes I believe), however, if a player doesn't die for 30 seconds, the timer will begin to tick down twice as fast. Once a player dies, this timer will return ticking down at a normal speed.

Achievements Revamp:

This is definitely lower priority but it would be nice to revamp the achievement system. Right now it is pretty tedious to navigate and I feel like they could go unnoticed for many players if nobody tells them about them.

Sephiths made a good thread about it, it would be cool to see smth like this implemented: https://athiosmc.com/threads/hub-network-badge-suggestion.398/

Although, one issue I see with Seph's idea is that I feel like most people don't use the advancements menu, so I think also reworking the gui itself would also be helpful. I made a thread on it a while back: https://athiosmc.com/threads/achievement-suggestions.128/



Kit Suggestions:

Burst:


The main issue to me is the fact that you can shoot full damage explosions with bow shots with barely any charge, it just gives it way too much damage output with no penalty.

Best case scenario, I'd say make damage scale based on how much the bow is charged up.

If that's not possible, you could give it a slower fire speed. Woaxa mentioned giving all archer kits a decreased fire rate and limited ammo, which is basically what this idea is. After firing an arrow, the burst would have no arrow for maybe ~0.5 seconds.


Operator:

rn this is probably one of the worst support kits and I feel like this is mostly since the operator has no reliable way to give good healing. The ability to provide remote healing doesn't make up for this weakness at all, which is that it has to keep fighting to heal, even though it has pretty bad gear.

One suggestion I'd give is giving the kit 10 golden apples. While the operator does get the passive regeneration buff if it has a drone available, it still has basically the same armor as medic and it doesn't have any abilities that help it get near enemies to build up their stacks.

Another idea I had is allowing people with drones on them to contribute to building up the healing meter, but maybe only give half as many levels as the operator does.

Give every kit a special ability:

Admittedly this idea will probably be more debatable, but it just came off the top of my head and I think it's cool so I'm gonna include it here.

While I believe that SnD prides itself in being "accessible to new players" thanks to its relatively simple vanilla mechanics to some extent, I feel like this claim is pretty faulty.

While it is true that the simple mechanics made it easy for many of us to get into the game many years ago, I believe the huge playerbase that sustained regular 100+ player games was really what allowed for those games to be as fun as they were. Nowadays, the server landscape is much different and we should adapt to it. We don't have as many players, so the chaotic nature of SnD that made up a large part of its entertainment factor is gone. And what we're left with is a somewhat standard PvP gamemode, at least, to most of the new players who see the game. As a result, I think a gameplay revamp would really help the game more marketable despite our lack of players.

We need a better reason for people to come try a PvP gamemode thats run on a 1.16.5 server. One way we can do that, is to give every kit at least one special ability.

I'll list a few of my ideas down below, but again, these are ideas I just thought of off the top so they might be wack. Bottom line is, I feel like we should try and enhance the gameplay of SnD more so it doesn't just seem like a vanilla PvP gamemode at large, at least to outsiders.


Ability cooldowns will be displayed by the exp bar, and a chat message will appear when the abilities are off cooldown.

"Grappling Arrow is ready!"

Longbow: Grappling Arrow

~12 second cooldown. Left clicking the bow will fire an arrow that will launch you towards it collides with a block. If a player is hit by it, they will be sent flying towards you. Movement will be mostly horizontal so you don't accidently kill yourself. Enemies hit by the grapple will not be completely pulled towards you, but they will be moved towards your direction by ~5 blocks.

Reasoning: Longbow is mostly just known as the kit to get ez kills on void maps and I think this would help make it a more viable support kit. I think it would also make its playstyle more fun. If you want, you can use the kit as either a ranged support or a mobile figher kit.

Ninja: Speed

~14 second cooldown. After right clicking your sword, you will receive speed 3 for 5 seconds and become partially invisible (like how you see ally ghosts). In this state, you will be unable to trigger landmines or take dmg from barricaders.

Reasoning: Could help deal with situations where people camp their base super hard, and also makes ninja better in situations where it has to charge in and try and take out an important kit, which makes sense imo.

Shortbow: True Strike

~8 second cooldown. After left clicking your bow, your next shot will be a "true strike" shot. When fully charged up, the arrow will fly in a straight path, and deal 1.25x more damage, and leave a cool particle trail.

Reasoning: I think making up a shortbow ability is kinda tough since it is already a very strong kit and fun to play. I think this ability could help it differentiate it from arbalist a bit more, and make it better for dealing damage overall tho.

Spy: Invis

~12 second cooldown. You can right click your sword to give yourself invisibility for 3 seconds. This invisibility breaks if you deal damage or take damage from an enemy

Reasoning: I think spy could use something more to help it be stealthy. Most of spy's power comes from the enemy team not paying attention, and this ability should give the kit user to be more consistent with it.

I decided to keep Trooper as it is. I didn't get to all of the kits without abilities, but these are just the ideas I have rn.
 

Espios

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Jun 24, 2020
Messages
71
100% agree with achievements revamp. I'd also like to see some more achievements added than just "Do 5k, 10k, 20k, 25k hearts of damage with ______". All the kit achievements share something similar to this. Some wacky and super difficult ones would be kinda fun to chase, like "travel 5000 blocks using barricades" or "kill 5 people with 1 landmine" in addition to the ones we have now.

I also agree with adding nukes to 2 team games, but I think making it so if no one dies for so long, the timer speeds up. I think right now

I also agree with your suggestions about Burst and Operator. I'm not sure if adding that special ability to the kits would be a good idea though, as it would be a pretty big game-changer to the gamemode. Though maybe that would be a good thing.

I still think that one of the coolest things we could do is Myth's idea about giving Athios a better, glossier look (outlined here https://athiosmc.com/threads/improving-snds-aesthetics.414/ ). I never really heard any good retorts about why it shouldn't be added.
 

Tyrue

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Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Messages
25
Ranged Kits:
I would decrease their armor because to me it doesn't make sense why their armor is as op or even more op than trooper armor.
This will indirectly buff ghost/wraith, and why they or primarily ghost should receive a nerf or multiple nerfs in the future.

I believe I saw pigpig say something about ghosts being very annoying in low-player games, and I have to agree with that statement. Ghost gets most of its kills by killing off stragglers who are alone, in low-player games, this is more common. One change that I can think of off the top of my head is to lower its sharpness to 1 in under 20 player games. Lib did something similar to medic on RWF, he made it so medic couldn't heal anyone in under 20 player games.

Operator:
I have only played operator once or twice and it does feel weak in comparison to other support kits. Every support kit feels weak to medic anyways. The change I think operator should receive is to give it an orb that decreases enemy armor, similar to arbalist just not as strong (fully turn it into Zenyata). Then give its chest plate blast resistance or proj prot or something. This way the kit isn't just a worse medic and can be used in other situations.

Burst:
I haven't played much burst, but getting hit by limp arrows for 4 hearts when I'm playing demo is pretty painful. I agree that burst should have to fully charge the bow for the explosion to deal damage.

Kit Abilities:
I like the idea of kits having abilities. But, I would increase the cooldown for all of them. Most kits that already have abilities like rewind clock are on a 30-second cooldown I believe. New abilities should be about the same.
Jug's special ability should be a suicide button.

That's all I can think of right now I just woke up :)

Edit:
Quick question, but are enemy footsteps, ladder climb noises turned off? One of the best ways to kill ghosts on RWF was listening to their footsteps, crouching being the only way to prevent that. I don't feel like I have ever heard footsteps or ladder noises made by enemies or teammates. I might just be deaf.

Side note, about disasters: Please turn off the windstorm sound that destroys my ears every time the tornado disaster is on. We don't need to hear a giant wind gust every second to know that there is a tornado on the map. I would rather not turn off my weather sounds every time that comes on.
Thanks
 
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Mythless

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May 29, 2020
Messages
100
I pretty much agree with all the general changes and kit suggestion changes. More avenues to explore for buffing Operator: Maybe simply increase the range of the drones healing by A LOT (or perhaps even just remove the range limitation)? When I first knew about the kit's ability to "heal at range," I was expecting the playstyle of them putting a drone on someone and sending them off while the Op chills in a safe spot and not the complete opposite where they're basically designed to be a battle medic with a healing range that seems inconsequential since you'd always have to stick by your allies to keep receiving the regen. This would indeed conflict with the Op needing to hit enemies to gain better healing, so in that case that could just be stripped from the Op themselves and applied to only the people who are given drones. It seems a lot more sensical to me, unless the Op is able to have a way to defend themselves like the golden apple suggestion.

I'm really unsure about the kit abilities idea, I can see why you'd suggest something like this though. If we're going down this route, I think it would be more balanced if these were more like one-time abilities, or abilities that simply enhance its kit's core mechanics instead of providing them with completely unique skills to avoid overlapping with some core kit abilities like comparing the Longbow's grapple arrow to Sabreur's lunge, or Ninja's invisibility to Trickster's. Another fun note, maybe they should come with some sort of drawback if they seem powerful enough to change the tide of battle.

To humor the idea, me come up with few more kit ability ideas. These may also be wack but I'm just making em because I always find this stuff mildly fun.

Also additional note: I feel like these special abilities should not be immediately available when a game starts. Would just be too chaotic.

Trickster: Complete Invisibility

Right-click sword whilst a decoy is deployed to activate this ability. When activated, your current invisibility duration is extended by 5 seconds, and your decoy will need to be hit three times to be destroyed. During this time, enemies will be unable to see you when struck by arrows, on fire, or sprinting, and you will be able to attack twice before becoming visible. Cooldown: 45 seconds (accounts for cooldown time of regular decoy).

Pyro: Heatwave

Right-Click sword to activate. For the next 8 seconds, you'll be inflicted with a Weakness 1 effect, become immune to fire, and fire particles will constantly emit around you. Enemies who are on fire around you in a 5-block radius will take double damage from fire. Cooldown: 45 seconds after duration is over.

Rewind: Unwind

Right-Click the Magical Clock within 5 seconds of rewinding. Doing so will take you back to the place you've rewinded from while granting you a Resistance 3, Regeneration 3, and Speed 2 effect for 3 seconds. Cooldown: 75 seconds (accounts for cooldown time of regular Rewind).

Frost: Flash Freeze

Hold Right-Click sword for 3 seconds to activate (startup indicator is the EXP level counting down from 3 to 0). Once activated, every enemy within a 7 block radius of you will have their hands frozen and will take freezing damage (a 1.17 thing) for the next 8 seconds. Cooldown: 60 seconds.

Teleporter: Camouflaged Ports

Right-Click sword to activate. Your teleporters will become invisible to the enemy for the next 10 seconds (excluding enemy Spies). When you and your allies use your teleporters, they will become invisible for 1.5 second after teleporting. Cooldown: 30 seconds after duration is over.

Arbalist: Multishot Marking

Left-Click Crossbow to activate. Your next shot will be treated as a multishot crossbow and will shoot spectral arrows (even if you currently do not have any). Cooldown: 65 seconds after the arrow is shot.

Venom: Lethal Poison

Right-Click sword to to activate. Your next strike on an enemy will inflict a Poison 3 and blindness effect on them for 7 seconds. If you do not hit an enemy with this special attack within the next 5 seconds, it will instead apply a blindness effect to you for 7 seconds. Cooldown: 65 seconds.
 
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Microwave

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Joined
May 11, 2021
Messages
19
I 100% agree with the achievement revamp for reasons already listed above, and I also 100% agree with nukes in a 2 team map. Onto the archer nerf, I think it could be done in a smarter way than just reducing its armor. Right now I already like the ghost v.s archer dynamic, and I don't think it should change too much. Instead of downright decreasing archers armor maybe make pyro, short bow, and longbow have a shot cool down like wraith, but shorter. Imo burst does not need a nerf. Even though it is a pain to deal with when you don't charge your bow the explosion will likely hit yourself and you will most likely take a lot of damage. The reason why burst may seem OP is that very few players play burst and they are very good at it. I will not have a say in the operator buff since idk anything about operator. Also, even though I agree ghost is a very strong kit, it requires skill to be remotely useful. I've seen many games where a bunch of new players play ghost and do nothing the entire game only to get slaughtered at the end. I think we might be over reacting with the ghost situation. Lastly wraith does not need a nerf, it's not inherently strong as is and a nerf would just make it worse.

On the special abilities idea, I disagree, but I think it would be funny so...


Medic(Max heal):
Right click on your sword and all allies in a 15 block radius including yourself gets regeneration 5 for 15 seconds.
Explosive(Rpg rain):
Rpgs rain down from the sky hitting everything in a 5 block radius
Dwarf(Insta max):
Instantly goes to lvl 20
 

Onett

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Joined
May 25, 2020
Messages
162
just want to clarify that by "give every kit a special ability" I mostly meant just kits that don't have anything special about them

i.e. longbow, shortbow, ninja

These kits do have unique characteristics but they are 100% vanilla, so I think adding something to them would be nice. Even if a kit has non-vanilla mechanics, if they feel bland, I think more abilities could help em be more fun/unique
 
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pigpig24

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Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
27
just want to clarify that by "give every kit a special ability" I mostly meant just kits that don't have anything special about them

i.e. longbow, shortbow, ninja

These kits do have unique characteristics but they are 100% vanilla, so I think adding something to them would be nice. Even if a kit has non-vanilla mechanics, if they feel bland, I think more abilities could help em be more fun/unique
I guess then that Trooper would be included in the list of blander kits? Hmm. What if Trooper's special ability is that when activated, its sword hits for the next few seconds (5s?) give the spectral arrow highlight? (Without the +40% damage of the arbalist spectral, though, because that might be OP.) You could call it Military Intelligence or something like that!
 

Espios

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Jun 24, 2020
Messages
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There's so many suggestions posts floating around the forums so I'm just going to add this one here:

As a perk of VIP, include a, say, 20x20x20 platform in hub that whenever a VIP walks onto, they get put into creative and can build whatever they want inside the square (minus some obvious things, like TNT, redstone machines, /give blocks, etc etc). All VIPs can collab on the platform too. The platform gets reset every 12 hours or so. And obvi we'd include some rules about keeping builds PG as well. I for one think it'd be pretty cool
 

Onett

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Joined
May 25, 2020
Messages
162
I still think that one of the coolest things we could do is Myth's idea about giving Athios a better, glossier look (outlined here https://athiosmc.com/threads/improving-snds-aesthetics.414/ ). I never really heard any good retorts about why it shouldn't be added.
ye i was also a big fan of his suggestions, hopefully they get implemented


I would decrease their armor because to me it doesn't make sense why their armor is as op or even more op than trooper armor.
Woaxa mentioned the idea of giving each archer kit limited arrows/reduced fire rate, but I think i'd be interested in trying this idea first, since it's easier and simpler.

More avenues to explore for buffing Operator: Maybe simply increase the range of the drones healing by A LOT (or perhaps even just remove the range limitation)?
Definitely agree, I think that would be a great first step.

An idea I recently thought of that I feel could be interesting is the ability to teleport to people you have given your drone to. It could have a delay and particles around the ally you are teleporting to so people have some time to react. I think that could really help make the kit more fun, not just so its more effective as a support but so its also a stronger fighter in a unique way.

I'd say like a 10 second cooldown and 2 second delay would be cool. You could also make it so if you take damage while channeling the teleport, it gets cancelled, if it proves to be too op.

To humor the idea, me come up with few more kit ability ideas. These may also be wack but I'm just making em because I always find this stuff mildly fun.
I'm not really a big fan of having really strong abilities on a long cooldown, I think it wouldn't really do much to improve gameplay, since they won't be used much in games.

Although I feel like the ideas you mentioned seem kinda like "ultimate abilities". If we really wanted to, we could overhaul like all of the kits in SnD to have multiple abilities and ultimate abilities. Honestly, I think it could be a dope idea but would probably take like 90 years to code so it probably isn't the most optimal.

What if Trooper's special ability is that when activated, its sword hits for the next few seconds (5s?) give the spectral arrow highlight? (Without the +40% damage of the arbalist spectral, though, because that might be OP.)
That's a pretty cool idea, never thought of something recon based but it kinda does fit since it is a front-liner kit. Alternatively, maybe it could activate an ability that lets it see all enemy health/ally health temporarily (similar to medic). That way it can identify the best targets and lead its team accordingly, since people tend to follow the melee kit's pathing anyways.



As a perk of VIP, include a, say, 20x20x20 platform in hub that whenever a VIP walks onto, they get put into creative and can build whatever they want inside the square (minus some obvious things, like TNT, redstone machines, /give blocks, etc etc). All VIPs can collab on the platform too.
I think its a neat idea, but imo it'd probably share a fate with hub fishing, as I feel like the fun will eventually die down, especially since there aren't a ton of VIPs to contribute to it. Maybe it could be put in further down the line when the server is larger.
 

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