Reduce Horizontal KB on Burst when they're Airborne

Cutbone

Active member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
42
If you've ever seen a burst jumping from tree to tree, it's likely because they're jumping and shooting their bow, essentially propelling themselves in a specific direction. Right now because of the new knockback system, when you take any amount of damage when jumping, especially if you've been hit in the same direction your momentum is taking you, you will essentially fly. This applies to burst as well, which allows them to be extremely mobile. This wasn't an intended feature for burst. It's already an extremely tanky class in 1v1's assuming you don't use your bow. It has an incredibly high damage output when using its bow, and in group fights, they are extremely dangerous. It's essentially antighost if playing conservatively, and now it's one of the most mobile classes in the game because of an unintended feature.

I don't know how to fix the problem per se, since I'm not a Minecraft expert, but I would assume either reducing the amount of knockback that someone can do to themselves could be a solution. The only other solution I could think of is universally making the knockback taken whilst the player is airborne lesser than what it currently is.
 

Setery

Active member
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
140
I personally like the idea of the knockback being vertically downwards
 

toomuchzelda

Active member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
59
i think its possible to deal damage to the shooter without pushing them at all. that should be the solution
 

Mythless

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
100
My points/opinions may sound biased, but trust me when I say that I’m being as neutral as possible.

If you've ever seen a burst jumping from tree to tree, it's likely because they're jumping and shooting their bow, essentially propelling themselves in a specific direction.
Burst Flying (aka old Burst) was understandable. You could get to ridiculous places you weren’t meant to get to. With the current Burst, you can still go to places, but they aren’t as ridiculous anymore (as ridiculous as the rafters in China’s Heaven for comparison).

This applies to burst as well, which allows them to be extremely mobile.
There is something you forgot to mention about all of this: Burst’s shots still burn 3/4 of a Heart. Meaning
  • With the already-reduced vertical kb, it will be even harder to get a handle on this to even get to trees. If they fail and fall—say goodbye to like half ~ 3 quarters of their entire health bar.
  • If using such a mechanic like this, the user would have to manage their HP more than ever.
  • If using this mechanic to maneuver through usually-inaccessible places, they cannot rely on Medic support to quickly regen their HP; they would have to wait up to a while to recover, which takes longer than you’d expect when constantly performing 3 shots at a time—each of which drain 2.25 Hearts.
The most noteworthy point though: Using this mechanic renders you at an impractical combat disadvantage. You cannot fight and use this mechanic at the same time, as both will assuredly cripple your health in a matter of seconds. If you’re low in a fight and choose to run, you have a choice to use the arrows to escape whilst taking longer to recover (and possibly die from the arrow recoil); or just keep running and recover faster. This applies to using Burst as a normal archer kit as well: you have to choose between “fighting shots” and “mobility shots” as both also drain HP. If you shoot to kill right after pulling some fast schmoves, you definitely won’t be shooting as much shots as normal.

This wasn't an intended feature for burst. It's already an extremely tanky class in 1v1's assuming you don't use your bow. It has an incredibly high damage output when using its bow, and in group fights, they are extremely dangerous. It's essentially antighost if playing conservatively, and now it's one of the most mobile classes in the game because of an unintended feature.
While it wasn’t an intended feature, I really think it helps add to the quirkiness of the kit, and makes it more fun to play. Some people might despise the kb on Burst in general, but there are also others that like the idea of going zoom-zoom at the cost of HP. If you ever face a Burst like this in battle anyway, you will probably almost always win because of the points I already mentioned above.

The tankiness of the kit seems misconstrued, since Bursts will almost always use the bow. The situation you described only applies to if the Burst engages the enemy melee-style at full HP, which chances are they mostly aren’t because they most definitely took some shots at the enemy before the engagement, or is backed into a corner and is forced to fight despite needing to recover.

I can’t argue that they are powerful archers, and that they are extremely effective when enemies are grouped together. But again, it all comes down to how much HP they have. If they want to be a fully effective Burst, they can’t afford to waste their arrows on some silly shots that makes them go faster for a tiny amount of time.

The part about being anti-ghost is definitely true. But to add on: Ghost can also be a good counter to Bursts that employ this mechanic. Bursts struggle and sap HP to get to these places, while Ghost can just easily chuck an enderpearl. They can easily knock off the Burst or sweep them up when they are still recovering. I’ve personally had it happen to me a lot of times whilst using Burst like this, so this isn’t as an impractical strategy as you’d think for a Ghost.

To end it off:

Right now because of the new knockback system, when you take any amount of damage when jumping, especially if you've been hit in the same direction your momentum is taking you, you will essentially fly...
I don't know how to fix the problem per se, since I'm not a Minecraft expert, but I would assume either reducing the amount of knockback that someone can do to themselves could be a solution. The only other solution I could think of is universally making the knockback taken whilst the player is airborne lesser than what it currently is.
I definitely think the general knockback system should be fixed, and yes I’m aware it affects Burst. But I really don’t feel like Burst should be specifically targeted; it seems fairly unnecessary. Besides, there are countless other kits that pull some ridiculous stuff because of the current knockback system. In one game where I played Ghost for example: I hit someone as if they were shot by a Longbow—just imagine that! Not to mention:
  • The recoil Explosion gets from RPGs also warrents them to get to places—albeit not as much as Burst would.
  • Everyone thinks Dwarf is total garbage (and it kind of is) because of the ridiculous knockback it gets from everyone.
  • Basically any melee kit can launch someone upwards in a given fashion, which is basically a field day especially for professional PvPers that already know how to properly space and angle themselves when attacking.
  • Longbow is ironically way too inconsistent. One shot will barely send anyone anywhere; One shot will launch someone flying.
That pretty much sums up what I have to say regarding this thread.
 
Last edited:

Cutbone

Active member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
42
I definitely think the general knockback system should be fixed, and yes I’m aware it affects Burst. But I really don’t feel like Burst should be specifically targeted; it seems fairly unnecessary. Besides, there are countless other kits that pull some ridiculous stuff because of the current knockback system. In one game where I played Ghost for example: I hit someone as if they were shot by a Longbow—just imagine that! Not to mention:
  • The recoil Explosion gets from RPGs also warrents them to get to places—albeit not as much as Burst would.
  • Everyone thinks Dwarf is total garbage (and it kind of is) because of the ridiculous knockback it gets from everyone.
  • Basically any melee kit can launch someone upwards in a given fashion, which is basically a field day especially for professional PvPers that already know how to properly space and angle themselves when attacking.
  • Longbow is ironically way too inconsistent. One shot will barely send anyone anywhere; One shot will launch someone flying.
That pretty much sums up what I have to say regarding this thread.
The only other solution I could think of is universally making the knockback taken whilst the player is airborne lesser than what it currently is.
I will say that yes I did target burst with this thread, but I also understand that knockback as a whole is busted while in the air. It's an easy target because it's the most flagrant example, and the easiest to point out. Not going to break down every point in your response because frankly, I agree with most of them. It just doesn't make sense why a kit with such a high damage output, can have the mobility that it has with little penalty to itself. You have to understand that burst currently is the 3rd or 4th most mobile class in the game (under ninja, ghost, spy, and situationally marine.) and also has an extremely high damage output. I'm not knocking the fact that it takes skill to pull off burst jumps, I understand that it does. What I am saying is that should not have that ability.
 

Log in

Join our Discord!

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
484
Messages
2,521
Members
259
Latest member
Froggo